LORD AND TEACHER

John 13: 12-17, 34-35

Ephesians 4: 20-24

PAG The purpose of our enquiry is that we might become more occupied with the fact that Jesus is Lord and be formed by that occupation. We have spoken about Him as Lord of all, and Lord of glory, and in this reading we should enquire together as to His place as Lord and Teacher. I am particularly thinking of the Lord’s authority in relation to the truth and the way that He exemplifies it. He says, “I have given you an example that, as I have done to you, ye should do also”. But example is not confined to what the Lord was and did when He was here. The washing of water by the word goes on, and the scripture in Ephesians says, “according as the truth is in Jesus”. The note there says, ‘There is an emphatic article before ‘Jesus’: ‘Jesus’ is personally brought into relief’, (note b). When we were speaking yesterday about the Lord, we referred to the scripture that says, “this Jesus whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ”, Acts 2: 36. This verse in Ephesians “as the truth is in Jesus”, it is in “this Jesus”; it is in such a One as Jesus! It is not anywhere else; it is seen in Him. It is formed in us by the present activity of the Holy Spirit. There is detail here that is worth enquiring into as to the new man. There is testimony too as we touched on in John 13, “By this shall all know that ye are disciples of mine, if ye have love amongst yourselves”, v 35. There is what is formative in relation to the truth and in relation to the Person, the Lord who embodies the truth in its entirety.

NJH That will be very fertile ground to follow up. What He is setting out here relates to what you said about the new man; persons that are to have only their hands and their feet washed would suggest putting on the new man, would it not? The first washing all over would be judicial cleansing.

PAG What the Lord does with Jew and Gentile is to “form the two in himself, into one new man”, Eph 2: 15. The new man is not Christ personally, but it is what is formed in persons. It is forming into one new man so that the one new man involves unity, and it involves the Lord’s formative work. What He is doing here in John is forming His disciples, and He is forming them by example.

RHB How would you distinguish the Lord as the Teacher and what He Himself says as to the Spirit that “he shall teach you all things”, John 14: 26.

PAG The Lord exemplifies the truth; so we can see it in Him. The Spirit forms us in the truth. If you look at John’s gospel what you see is what we sometimes refer to as the truth set out objectively. It can be taken account of there, but in John’s epistles the truth is set out subjectively and we are told in the first epistle that “the Spirit is the truth”, (chap 5: 6); that is the truth formatively. Why I am emphasising this is that the truth is not a matter merely of knowledge. The truth is something that affects us and forms us. We are to be regulated by it. We were reminded in one of the earlier readings that what we understand as light in relation to the truth regulates us, it forms us.

RHB That is very helpful. Peter says of the Lord that He has left us a model, (1 Pet 2: 21); that is something to be taken account of, and then your thought is that it is to produce a result that we should follow in His steps.

PAG It is, and it is protective. The Lord says to the Father in John 17, “Sanctify them by the truth: thy word is truth”, v 17. Sanctification involves being set apart for holy purposes. The truth sets us apart from the world. The world does not understand the truth, “as the truth is in Jesus”, which is quite distinct from what the world understands as truth.

TRC Luke gives the reason at the beginning of Acts why he wrote his gospel; he says, “concerning all things which Jesus began both to do and to teach”, chap 1: 1. I wondered whether you get the two thoughts there, the thought of example, and the teaching.

PAG One thing about the Lord is that what He did and what He taught were entirely consistent with one another. And again, if we apply the truth to ourselves, it develops consistency in our walk; it develops consistency in our approach to matters; it develops consistency in how we regard one another. The truth is not a series of rules and regulations; the truth is the revelation of the mind of God. It includes and involves God’s thoughts about matters; it includes His thoughts about Christ. It includes His thoughts about you and me.

JTB Is the need then for us to take the place as instructed. The Lord Jesus Himself in His dependence heard as “the instructed”, Isa 50: 4. It is very affecting to think of that as applied to the Lord Jesus. He is the truth, He knew it entirely, but is that a feature that should characterise us, the capacity to be instructed?

PAG Exactly; I am glad you bring that forward because the Lord taking the place of “the instructed” involved His subjection to what the Father said. Our place as instructed involves subjection to what the Lord said. But He says it as One who as Man has Himself been subject, and so He speaks in affection, and He speaks with understanding.

JTB It requires a certain humility of mind to take that place. There are many instructors, but to have been subject as being instructed really equips us for other things, do you think?

PAG The scripture speaks about “the love of the truth”, 2 Thess 2: 10. Why would we love the truth? We love the truth because of Who it speaks about. We love it because we recognise that “as the truth is in Jesus” it involves a Person whom we love.

JL There would be a fine difference between commandments and teaching. As a commandment comes to us, we necessarily require to be submissive to the Lord’s authority, but teaching seems to imply the capacity to understand and be formed by what is presented to us by way of teaching. So it is more than just a regulatory thought that requires obedience, but something that involves intelligent appreciation of what comes, and the capacity to take it in.

PAG Teaching involves structure and order and application; so the truth has a structure. It is one whole, but it has a structure. God begins with the glad tidings in order that we might be saved, and then we go on to the truth of the kingdom in order that we might be protected. We saw yesterday that you come into the kingdom to be fed and to be taught, and that is protective. And then the kingdom is protective of the assembly; that is to say that as we uphold what is due to the Lord and His rights, the assembly, which is nearest His heart, is protected in our affections. That is not by any means a delineation of all the truth, but the truth has a structure to it, and it has an order to it. There is not a separate truth of the gospel, truth of the kingdom, and truth of the assembly; it is all part of one whole but there is a structure and an order to it. But then it is applicable; in other words it involves something that we can do: “Believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved” (Acts 16: 31); that is the gospel; that is something that you can do. And then being subject to the Lord, the truth of the kingdom, that is something we can do. And loving one another which involves the working of the body and the truth of the assembly, that is something which we can do.

JL Very helpful; we will continue to build on that.

NJH The Lord coming first, “the Lord and the Teacher”, the Person would hold you in spirit and intelligence and affection so that you can be taught rightly.

PAG Yes, and it is easy to recognise the authority of someone you love and someone who loves us. It might appeal more to the natural man to say the Teacher and the Lord; we are here to learn things so that we can add to our knowledge, but it appeals to a believer who has the Spirit that it should be “the Lord and the Teacher”. It is the Person that comes first and then what He says has meaning to us because of who is saying it.

RDP Would you say what the connection is with the washing of their feet. Previously He had spoken about “part with me”, v 8. I was wondering whether this feet washing, which is distinct from normal feet washing, might be in view of them becoming comfortable in relation to the whole matter of having part with Him. The truth of having part with Him was not to be given as a stark fact but introduced it when His own were comfortable in relation to Himself. Why is it in connection with feet washing?

PAG The brethren in Glasgow have made arrangements so that we should be comfortable when we are considering the scriptures and speaking about them together. We will find that the truth will more readily have its way with us and appeal to us when we are comfortable, when we are restful. If we are agitated we become distracted. The nations were in tumultuous agitation (Ps 2: 1), and the nations are currently in tumultuous agitation, but the Lord enables us by the Spirit’s power to set these things aside so we can be restful in order to take in what He is saying. He gives peace to His own, and He leaves His peace with them (John 14: 27), in order that they might continue to be restful in relation to the truth. The Lord demonstrated what He was saying; He did not just say it, He did it. Quite often a brother or a sister can tell, and perhaps unbelievers can tell too, the extent to which I have assimilated the truth by what I do, not just by what I say.

TWL I was wondering about the references to the matter of continuance. Teaching according to the truth is what makes way for continuance. I was thinking in relation to the ten days when the disciples were left here, they were continually in prayer; they had been taught that. Here the washing in John 13 was to continue, so that the moral excellence of the manhood of Jesus becomes formative and continues.

PAG The feet washing was to continue! You will remember in Solomon’s temple there were lavers, and they were on wheels, they could be moved to where they were needed; so the thought of the continuance of feet washing was demonstrated there. But one of the things it says about the bases of the lavers is that they had “one casting, one measure, one form”, (1 Kings 7: 37); they all took pattern from Christ. There was not some different pattern here and there; they were in that sense all the same. They could be taken to where they were needed; so they were adaptable to the circumstances of the moment but there was still only one Lord and Teacher.

GBG Is the Lord drawing attention to Himself here? He says, “If I therefore, the Lord and the Teacher”. We have to be affected by the greatness of the Person who does this.

PAG That is exactly right, and that is why it is important that we take account of the fact that in Ephesians it is “as the truth is in Jesus”, and Jesus is emphasised, the Person is emphasised. One thing about the truth is because it is “according as the truth is in Jesus”, it is inexhaustible. Just to be simple, if you learn at school to multiply numbers together you start with small numbers, such as two times two is four, and you learn to multiply for bigger and bigger numbers and maybe you use a calculator, but once you have learned how to do it that is it, you know how to do it! The thing about the truth is because it is in Jesus there is always something more. It is worth going in for.

PJW We had ministry recently in Strood as to Mary of Bethany; she “sat down at the feet of Jesus was listening to his word” Luke 10: 39. I wonder if she is an example in whom the truth became formative. We went on to chapter 12 where she anointed the Lord’s feet.

PAG That is helpful, and what the Lord says is that she “has chosen the good part”, v 42. The Lord has authority in relation to the truth, but you still have to choose to go in for it. You can choose what you do with your time. Now there are some things you cannot choose. Of course, if you have to go to work or look after family or other responsibilities, these you must do; we must be righteous. But for what you do with what you have left, it is a question of what you choose to prioritise. I can tell you that if you prioritise the Lord, if you put the Lord first, the reward so greatly outweighs the sacrifice that I could not really put a limit on it. You will benefit in ways that you would not currently consider in putting the Lord first.

PJW That is helpful. One of the sisters was distracted but they both got help together from subjection to the Lord. I was thinking what you said about the kingdom being protective, when the attack came on Mary, Jesus defended her immediately.

PAG Yes He did! He protected Mary, and you might say Martha was distracted, but He loved Martha too. He loved Martha, and He loved Mary, and He loved Lazarus; He loved them all. If we get some touch of the Lord’s affection for us it makes it all the more simple to go in for the things that He values.

QAP When the Lord Jesus says, “Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me” (Matt 11: 29), I wondered if there is a link between the reference to the yoke and a recognition of His lordship, His authority, but then it leads into what is more intimate and the understanding that He is “meek and lowly in heart”.

PAG Mr Darby says in his hymn:

There is rest in the blessed yoke,

And in proving no will but His (Hymn 85).

There is something not only regulating but restful in taking His yoke upon us. A yoke was what was placed on the shoulders of an ox. If two oxen were to walk together, to pull a cart or to plough a field, the yoke held them together. They did not have one each; there was just one for both. The Lord’s yoke, is what He has. Think of the Saviour of the world, the Creator of the universe, so arranging things that you and He can walk in step, and He does not say, ‘learn about me’ but He says, “learn from me”. He shows us how to do things.

AMB Attention has been drawn to Matthew 11, and the Lord’s desire is that His own should be meek and lowly in heart too; that is the tenor of the passage. Do you think that the Lord’s earnest desire is that the blessed features we see in Him in manhood should be found again in our measure, and that is the objective of His teaching?

PAG It is to make us like Him! Mr Darby remarks as to the end of Psalm 16 and verse 11 where it says,

Thou wilt make known to me the path of life:

thy countenance is fulness of joy;

at thy right hand are pleasures for evermore.

He says that is like John’s gospel: we see the truth set out in all its perfection, “at thy right hand are pleasures for evermore”. But then the end of the Psalm 17 it says,

As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness; I shall be

satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness (v 15)

Mr Darby relates that to John’s epistles. In John’s gospel we see the truth set out, and in John’s epistles we find it formed in us. John in his epistles gives us reassurance. We may ask how we know that things are true: “We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren”, 1 John 3: 14. The consequence of our loving the brethren is that we know that we have passed from death to life. We have in the atmosphere of the brethren something that the world doubtless would envy, but has no idea how to achieve; and they cannot. But brethren have it; every believer can have it because we have one Object, and that Object is Christ. The hymn 328 says,

Be Thou the object bright and fair

To fill and satisfy the heart.

The opportunity available in subjection to the Lord Jesus and in interest in the truth is boundless and it is glorious.

AJMcK Is there subjection to one another as well? I was thinking of what we sang in the hymn:

And in subjection bow. (Hymn 306)

It is the spirit of subjection, is it?

PAG I think that enters in. Our brother was mentioning feet washing which precedes this, and I think that enters into the Lord’s activity in feet washing. He made Himself subject to His disciples. He served them! The Lord and the Teacher served His own disciples. So therefore must we! If ye love one another, “By this all shall know that ye are disciples of mine, if ye have love amongst yourselves”. How do we demonstrate that? Well the scripture says, “by love serve one another”, Gal 5: 13.

AJMcK I was thinking of what we had yesterday, “For let this mind be in you” (Phil 2: 5); that going down mind. The spirit of subjection makes room for the Lord primarily, “the Lord and the Teacher”, but it makes room for one another.

PAG The going down mind does not occupy ourselves with ourselves. I could become preoccupied with how humble I am, but that is not what is in mind: “each esteeming the other as more excellent than themselves”; occupation with Christ and subjection to our brethren has a liberating effect on our spirits because we stop being occupied with ourselves.

DCB I was wondering if Mary in John 20 gave us examples of this. She begins with the acknowledgement, “my Lord”; “they have taken away my Lord” (v 13), but when He comes before her view she says, “Rabboni”, (v 16), acknowledging, ‘my Teacher’. She was taking it to herself and then you see how much opens up in the teaching because of that.

PAG Say more for our help about how we make the Lord personal to us, and how we make the truth personal to us as Mary did.

DCB I suppose you see Mary having come to the point where there was nothing else before her view. The Lord was in death as far as she was concerned, and therefore there was no other prospect; everything was closed up. I wondered if it was like “the truth as it is in Jesus; namely … ”; it is not just “the truth as it is in Jesus”. It brings in that there is the end, and any life that there is, is in the new man being formed.

PAG I think that is why the emphasis is placed on “Jesus” in the passage in Ephesians 4 to draw out that it is nowhere else; it is not to be found elsewhere. There is an incomparable aspect to the truth, and Mary thought for the moment that she had lost contact with the One who meant everything to her and that weighed on her spirit in a way that we can scarcely credit. But He spoke to her and said, “Mary”. If we are feeling at all disorientated or uncertain the Lord would speak to us, and He would speak to us by name that we might hear Him and see Him with the eyes of faith.

JBI Do you think we come into these things through discipleship, through being subject to the Lord Jesus? He did not teach the crowds like He taught the disciples in the house.

PAG That is very helpful, but please expand on how He taught the disciples and what it means to be a disciple.

JBI I would like help about it because that is the way to come into the truth; through discipline in knowing His affection for us.

PAG Yes, and we spoke about the truth having structure and order, and therefore we get help on the truth as we approach it in a structured and orderly way, setting aside time, seeking to read things, reading a book in the scriptures, and then perhaps seeing what help can be found in ministry about the subjects under consideration. As we take it up in an orderly way the Lord helps us, and all that would enter in to being disciplined about how we go about things, and into being orderly in our minds in relation to the truth.

NJH What he has is a treasury to him; new and old, it is treasure to him.

PAG Yes, “every scribe discipled to the kingdom of the heavens is like a man that is a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old”, Matt 13: 52. There is always something fresh about the truth and yet it never changes.

EJM In Matthew 11 He was rejected, and yet He says, “learn from me”. The structure follows that, and the truth as to His sonship and the truth as to the assembly.

PAG We have been taught helpfully that at that point in Matthew 11 and into chapter 12 Christ becomes the turning point and model, JT vol 1 p73. These two things are important; the first thing is the turning point. For His disciples it was turning away from Judaism and for us it is turning away from the world and its whole system. And then the model; it is not just that you turn away from something and say what shall I do now? You have a model to follow. Peter says, “leaving you a model that ye should follow in his steps”. He gives the characteristics of the Model; He “who, when reviled, reviled not again; when suffering, threatened not; but gave himself over into the hands of him who judges righteously”, 1 Pet 2: 23. The model is perfect and has been through every exigency of the testimony, has been through every difficulty and faced it in perfection.

JL I was thinking of the binding element on account of the truth being held in love. Can you say a little more on that particular point in regard of how it is held, and the binding element between our own affections and Christ Himself?

PAG That is important. I have the impression that “holding the truth in love”, (Eph 4: 15), involves that you can scarcely handle the truth rightly if love is not in operation. The Lord always loved His own; it says, “having loved his own who were in the world, loved them to the end”, John 13: 1. He went through with everything! Whatever happened, He loved “his own who were in the world”. He says, “as I have loved you, that ye also love one another”. So in His setting out of the truth He did it in love! In our application of the truth, it should be in love. I believe it is.

RDP I was thinking of Peter and what has been said as to Mary, “To you therefore who believe is the preciousness”, 1 Pet 2: 7. Peter speaks about what is structural, a spiritual house, “to whom coming” (v 4, 5), the building up of a spiritual house. You also get the royal priesthood, v 9. It is just that word “preciousness”, a Peter word is it not; “To you therefore who believe is the preciousness”? It seemed to be the binding thing; this picture of the living stones coming together in relation to Him and there is something being built up together.

PAG What you say is good: things became precious to Peter, “the greatest and precious promises”, 2 Pet 1: 4. He speaks about “precious blood, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot, the blood of Christ, foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world”, 1 Pet 1: 19. Things do become more valuable as you go in for them; you see the value in them and they become more valuable; they become precious.

KNP I was wondering about the two that were on the way to Emmaus; the Lord opened up to them “from Moses and from all the prophets …. the things concerning himself”, Luke 24: 27. There is nothing new there, but they were learning from Him on that journey and as a result of that they knew something of this love for one another because it was one heart that was burning.

PAG Yes, “Was not our heart burning in us”, v 32. It is a good thing to read the books of Moses and all the prophets with Christ in mind. If you look at the books of Moses some of the chapters in Exodus about the tabernacle system, and Leviticus about the offerings, and in Numbers about the movements of the camp and the setting up of the camp, it could seem quite complicated, but once you begin to see Christ in it then it begins to have meaning. Our brother was helping us yesterday about the ark and the different aspects of it. The ark as an object might be momentarily interesting, but as a type of Christ it is a wonderful thing, the gold that is there. When you come to the table of shewbread, where the saints are represented, you find that one of the dimensions of the table of shewbread is the same as one of the dimensions of the ark. It suggests what is being formed in the saints. These are simple examples of the depth that is there if we are willing to go in for it. And “from all the prophets”; we read recently in the minor prophets and touches as to Christ illuminate every chapter. And then at the end of Luke, once these two have been recovered, the Lord also takes up the psalms and that is the formative experience of the saints. Having set out the glory of His Person He then brings forward the psalms in view of the formation of what He has taught in the hearts of believers.

JAB What we are enjoying now is something that is living and attractive, and it is incumbent on all of us, especially those of us who are older, to show that the truth is living and attractive. What I want to ask you about is the role of the Scriptures as the word of God. Throughout church history men have taken the truth and added things to it. Could you say something for our teaching about the link between the Scriptures as the word of God and all that you are saying about the truth, because there is a very strong link and yet they are distinct things?

PAG There is a link, and it is good that you bring it up. The Scriptures are spoken of as “the scripture of truth” (Daniel 10:21), and they are the word of God; so they have authority, and they have a source, and their source is in God, and persons wrote them in the power of the Holy Spirit. They contain the complete written expression of what is to be known of God. There is not something else; so if anything is additional to the scriptures then it is not right: it is just as simple as that. The scripture says, “a man shall leave his father and his mother, and shall be united to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh. This mystery is great, but I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly” (Eph 5: 31-32); that regulates us and anything that goes outside that is not according to Scripture. The Scriptures are one whole, “the scripture cannot be broken” (John 10: 35); so if we are being asked to take something on that is not according to Scripture then it is easily seen and quickly rejected. What of course is important is that we understand the spirit of Scripture: Christ is the spirit of Scripture, He imbues it, He gives life to it. We do have teaching about the Scriptures and the interpretation of them, but the Bereans searched “the scriptures if these things were so”, (Acts 17:11); they traced everything back to the Scripture. The Bible forms the way believers think.

When I was a child whenever we asked my father a question about almost anything he would tell us what the Scripture said. The Scripture guided the way he thought, and I learned from that. If the Scripture guides the way you think you are on safe ground; you are not using your own mind to calculate how might you go about this, and if something arises the Scripture can guide the way you think. The Spirit who indited it will help you understand it, and the Lord who is the subject of it, gives His authority to it. So even in a situation where you might be a testimony to the Lord’s name the Scripture has its own power. Does that help?

JAB It helps very much. Christ is the spirit of Scripture; the scriptures are living. You can read a verse that you have read a hundred times and get a fresh impression from it. It is not a manual: it is living, and we have to hold both of these things. The Scriptures do function like the banks of the river, so you do not go beyond them, but what flows as a result of these banks being there is what we are speaking about in this reading, and it is living.

PAG The apostle Paul alludes to two situations in which there was difficulty and in one he says, “But what says the scripture?”(Gal 4: 30); and in the other he says, “But what says the divine answer to him?”, Rom 11: 4. We need both! We need Scripture, and we need the divine answer. Well, how does this apply? What are we to do? Both are available: “But what says the scripture?”; “But what says the divine answer to him?”.

RWMcC Could you say something about principles in relation to teaching and what you have just said? I was thinking back to your illustration of two times two; big numbers are broken down so that the same principles apply.

PAG A brother said that divine principles always work, and they never vary. If we think of the way that nature teaches us, gravity works in a particular way and it does not vary; light is available to us in a particular way, and that way does not vary. Divine principles are there to protect what is according to God, what is pleasurable to God.

You will remember that in the tabernacle system there were curtains; they were protective. Now a curtain is not a rigid thing, but each of the curtains had the same measurements and had the same function, and they protected the whole system, and they protected not only the sides but the back and the front as well. There were other protections provided; the badger skins and the rams’ skins dyed red; the cloth of blue was placed over the ark. The cloth of blue was placed directly on the table of shewbread, and it is worth as a matter of interest to enquire why the ark and the table are slightly different in that regard, but the principles, that is to say what is protective, covered the whole system. The measurements were not variable. We talk about principles, and principles are the things which allow us to make our way through even when conditions are adverse. In the next reading, if the Lord will, we will come to speak about the fellowship and the fellowship is governed by principles. It is not governed by my ideas or convenience, or what I might happen to prefer; it is governed by principles, in order that the Lord’s rights might be upheld; that is what is in view. Why do we uphold the Lord’s rights? Because He is Lord, but also because it makes way for the maintenance of the service of God. Principles are not an end in themselves; principles are there to protect what is precious to God and to allow the service of praise to proceed in righteousness.

RHB There is the expression ‘the present truth’. There is the sense that the truth does not change but there were great changes for Peter. You spoke about the change from Judaism to Christianity; that was the present truth: it was the Spirit bringing the truth and the Scriptures and what is contained in them to bear upon the need of the moment.

PAG That is right, and you see that in the way that the Lord is presented in the various epistles. In Romans He is Head to us on moral grounds, in Colossians He is Head to us on personal grounds, and in Ephesians He is Head to us on official grounds. To the Thessalonians He is “our deliverer from the coming wrath” (chap 1: 10), to the Galatians He is the Deliverer “out of this present evil world” (chap 1: 4), and in Romans He delivers us out of “this body of death”, chap 7: 24. It is the same Person, and the same principles, but applied to the need of the moment. As soon as we bring Christ into the matter we are going to get help.

RHB I was thinking of that passage in Luke 24 that our brother referred to; they heard the greatest exposition of Scripture that there has ever been! We are not able to delineate the whole truth, but they were in the presence of One who was able to and did it! And yet their feet still went in the wrong direction until they recognised Him and then all that they had been taught fell into place.

PAG I think that is of the greatest importance because the truth only works if the Lord is our object; otherwise it is just a system of rules. As soon as the Person comes into our affections then everything finds its place because it finds its place in relation to Him.

NCMcK In regard to what was said earlier as to how our minds are formed through the Scriptures and the truth, and we think differently, it speaks in Ephesians where we read as to “being renewed in the spirit of your mind”. I wondered if you could say something about that.

PAG I am looking at Romans 12 where it says, “And be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind”, v 2. The renewing of our minds involves the work of the Spirit and subjection to the Lord; it involves yielding our bodies “a living sacrifice” (v 1), and it gives us the capacity to think differently. But being “renewed in the spirit of your mind” means that it has become characteristic to think differently. A feature of believers is that characteristically they think differently from the world; they do not approach things in the way that the world approaches them. That is why Paul says to these Ephesians saints, “But ye have not thus learnt the Christ”. They have not learnt the Christ in the way that the world proceeds; it is something completely different, and it is the spirit of our minds. If Christ is the spirit of Scripture then the spirit of our minds is formed by that Person who is the spirit of Scripture.

WMP You referred to the structure of the truth, and the invariability of principles, but you also spoke about applicability, and I wondered about the place of our local meetings. They have a very important place in this whole matter of how we individually progress in the truth.

PAG The local meetings are available, and each locality arranges them according to the resources that they have; we respect that, and the local meetings that are available are of immense value. It is almost unthinkable, but think of a situation where you learned nothing at all until the first day you went to school. So in your home your parents taught you nothing; you did not learn to speak, you did not know anything at all. If you think of the home as being like the local meeting, that is where you learn as well, so that when you have to face wider circumstances, whatever they may be, you have already learned something; you go out equipped. You might learn more as you go along, but the local meeting is like our home.

It says in Leviticus 10 where a difficulty had arisen, “the breast of the wave-offering, and the shoulder of the heave-offering shall ye eat in a clean place, thou, and thy sons, and thy daughters with thee; for as thy due, and thy sons’ due, are they given of the sacrifices of peace-offerings of the children of Israel”, v 14. It is Aaron and his sons and his daughters, it is usually just Aaron’s sons that are mentioned, but it is the whole family here, his sons and his daughters. The peace-offering we have been taught relates to the fellowship, and the priestly family have the breast of the wave-offering and the shoulder of the heave-offering; that is to say, they have impressions of the affection and power of Christ in that local setting. That is why it is so valuable, and we can learn, and we can ask questions. We can, speaking for myself, make mistakes and the brethren help us and we do that, and it is like being at home.

WMP Do you think that the conversational aspect of our reading meetings for example is very contributory to this line of instruction?

PAG It is! We have been speaking about it locally both in the meetings and in private conversation, but I wonder if we understand how valuable it is to have these conversational meetings for enquiry, to be able to speak about the truth and to ask questions and to hear what the Lord has to say. What we call temple enquiry, when we come into a place where the Lord’s rights are acknowledged and where His voice can be heard, and we speak in restfulness over the scriptures, is a very valuable thing. Beloved brethren, do not miss the readings if you can avoid it. I am not telling you to be there every time, I know there are responsibilities, but they are very valuable; they are where you learn.

NJH Teaching in the house would support teaching in the assembly, would it not? I was just thinking what has been said is important; it is not like a different atmosphere, it is confined, family affection, but it is still love for Christ in the house, and when you come to the assembly it is greatly expanded.

PAG It is a fine thing to live in a house where the Scriptures are valued, to live in a house where a Bible is opened and read and there is interest in it. How many people in the world have that? What is to be gained by having the Scriptures opened is immeasurable because we have been given access to something that is without limit.

TRC We spoke earlier as to the order of the truth. Locally we take up a book, and there is order in that; we follow a course of teaching and that is how we grow and learn in the truth. No occasion of gathering is repeated. I was thinking of Thomas; that occasion was never repeated, he missed something that the other disciples cherished.

PAG It is orderly, and often a book is taken up, sometimes an enquiry may be made as to a subject. I remember we had some enquiries in our evening readings about prayer. If a brother has an interest in a subject, or an exercise about it, or a desire to understand more about it, then temple enquiry is a good place to bring these things forward.

CJMcK  In Acts 17 Paul “reasoned with them from the scriptures, opening and laying down that the Christ must have suffered”, v 2, 3. Do we prove something of these things, the reasoning, the opening, and then the laying down? I wondered if it involved the authority of the Scriptures and also too what is constructive.

PAG I think that and we have had brothers who have served us in opening the Scriptures, and then laying down; the ministry we have available to us is authoritative. It is not Scripture but it is founded on Scripture, and it has authority, and we should, and I am sure we do, value it. We have to recognise too that what the apostles said was authoritative; it came from the Lord directly; they had a commission to deliver it; so the ministry of the apostles is not an optional matter. It has been laid down, and as our brother has been enquiring about principles, what is laid down in the apostles’ ministry, teaching that we have in Scripture, is authoritative and to be followed.

TRC At the beginning of Acts “they persevered in the teaching”, (chap 2: 42); that needs to continue until the end.

PAG “The teaching and fellowship of the apostles, in breaking of bread and prayers”; these things go together. If you are interested in what is being said today, what has been said over the weekend, if you love the Lord, the breaking of bread is there for you. If you have not taken it up, there is an opportunity to do so, and as you take that up then you have an opportunity to contribute to assembly prayer. That opportunity is available, and it is not an exclusive opportunity: it is available to every believer who has the Spirit.

JW I was going to ask about the renewing of the mind; that would be a constant matter, it would not be a once for all matter, and it says, “be not conformed to this world, but be transformed”. I am not sure if it is the same word in the original, but it is the same word as 2 Corinthians 3: 18, “transformed”; so that is a constant matter with us.

PAG The Lord is constantly acting in a refining way to bring out more fully what is pleasing to Him and what will be available for the worship of God eternally. I feel there is always room for refinement in spiritual things; the detail of them is important.

JW If we neglect these matters we feel the difference ourselves. We are not to be conformed to the world, but we are to be transformed; if we are diligent in that matter we know the benefits of it spiritually.

PAG When my wife and I were not long married we needed help about a matter, and we prayed about it, and we went to see an older brother and sister in their home, and we got a great deal of help. We commented on how much we had enjoyed the conversation, but also how we felt safe in raising our exercises in the presence of believers who loved the Lord. To me there is something about our interactions with one another that helps along that refining effect, and there is no safer place than the company of the brethren.

DCB Is the Holy Spirit pervasive in all that you have been speaking about?

PAG What we are speaking about only functions because the Spirit is present.

DCB We have spoken of the Scriptures: they are indited by the Holy Spirit; we have spoken about ministry: that is given in the power of the Spirit; and we have spoken about local assemblies and working things out, and things are only effective as they are done in the power of the Holy Spirit.

PAG This dispensation is sometimes referred to as the Spirit’s day; the day of the Lord is the millennium, and the day of God is the eternal day, but this is the Spirit’s day. The maintenance of the kingdom of God rests entirely on the power of the Holy Spirit; that is how the kingdom of God is maintained in power, by the Holy Spirit, not by any other means. The Spirit is essential; there can be no progress without the Spirit.

AMB We need constantly, personally to turn to the Spirit. We do not get help from the Spirit one day and think that that can last us for the rest of the week; it is a daily matter. His service is very broad to the believer. He preserves us from evil and temptation when we turn to Him, but He also helps us to understand the truth and to have it in our hearts as well as in our minds. He helps us to appreciate the Lord so that He is more attractive to us. We need to seek His help all the time and be accustomed to turning to the Spirit.

PAG We do; the Lord said to His disciples as to the Spirit, “but ye know him”, John 14: 17. If I put that the other way, how would you know someone if you never spoke to them? He knows you, and He knows me; the question is whether I speak to Him. We do so reverently, but He is available at all times. If you take up the Scripture and there is something in it that you cannot quite understand, ask the Spirit.

RDP In Hebrews it speaks about the great salvation, “how shall we escape if we have been negligent of so great salvation”, chap 2: 3. It lists what began by being spoken by the Lord, then it was confirmed by those who heard, who would be the apostles, and “God bearing, besides, witness with them to it, both by signs and wonders, and various acts of power, and distributions of the Holy Spirit, according to his will?”, v 4. The subject there is the great salvation which is really the background to what we are speaking of: “the distributions of the Holy Spirit”, a lovely thought.

PAG There is an unstinting character about divine giving. Peter says of the giving of the Spirit “and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this which ye behold and hear”, Acts 2: 33. Various “distributions of the Holy Spirit” would involve that the Spirit was applicable in the circumstances in which these persons found themselves; the Spirit was available to help.

RHB On the basis of that scripture it was not only that the Lord was the truth, but He brought all the truth out in His own teaching in its essence. The apostles were used by Him to develop what He brought out, but in its germ every feature of the truth, if we seek for it, can be found in His own ministry.

PAG Yes, because He is “the Word”, John 1: 1. There is nothing outside of that; He is “the Word”; He is the One who expressed the mind of God; He is the effulgence of God’s glory “and the expression of his substance”, Heb 1: 3. He is the One who is complete in His expression, and we are complete in Him. “In him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily”; that is to say, it is accessible to us on account of His manhood and, “ye are complete in him”, Col 2: 9. So He is the complete expression of all that is to be known of God, and we are complete in Him; both in a sense work together.

22^nd October 2022

At 3-day meetings in Glasgow

List of initials -

A M Brown, Linlithgow; D C Brown, Edinburgh; J A Brown, Linlithgow; J T Brown, Edinburgh; R H Brown, Maidstone; T R Campbell, Glasgow; G B Grant, Dundee;
P A Gray, Linlithgow; N J Henry, Glasgow; J B Ikin, Manchester; J Laurie, Brechin;
T W Lock, Edinburgh; E J Mair, Buckie; R W McClean, Grimsby; A J McKay, Witney; C J McKay, Glasgow; N C McKay, Glasgow; W M Patterson, Glasgow; R D Plant, Birmingham; Q A Poore, Swanage; K N Pye, New York; P J Walkinshaw, Strood;
J Webster, Fraserburgh