JOHN 1
John 1: 14-51
DCB I thought it was as well to make sure we went over the paragraph beginning in verse 14 since it brings out the distinctiveness of the glory of the Lord Jesus. We see the One whom we have been reading about before, the Word, “In the beginning was the Word” (v 1), and what glory attached to Him even before worlds were. But then “the Word became flesh” - how wonderfully God has approached us in that way! - “and dwelt” or ‘tabernacled’ (note ‘c’) “among us”, and then we have a company of His disciples, initially, who “have contemplated his glory”. That would give us an incentive to contemplate the glory of this One, and to see Him in the distinction that He has with “a glory as of an only-begotten with a father”.
NRC That is helpful. There are many characters and glories of the Lord that come out from verse 14 onwards, are there not? Say something as to the section from verse 14 onwards that brings out the thought of “grace and truth” being together here. What can you say as to that?
DCB Well, you see how remarkable it is that God Himself should come in, and come in in grace. How righteous it would have been for God to have come in in judgment, but coming in in Christ it is in grace. But “grace and truth” are so very closely attached together in this section, the singular verb that is used for them that shows that they cannot really be divided. They have one essence in Christ: grace and truth are displayed perfectly in Him.
NRC So the truth that Moses brought before his people in relation to the law is one thing, but this is completely separate to that. This is “grace and truth”, which is seen only in the Lord Jesus. Would it be right to say that the truth that Moses brought before us is really what man’s position should be before God, but God has revealed Himself in grace and truth through the Lord Jesus?
DCB The law therefore made its demands upon men, and Israel was rapidly found to be unable to meet the demands of God, His righteous demands; so the only way that we can enter into blessing, the only way we can know God, is as He has come out in grace.
JTB That is really the significance of “the Word became flesh”; that is a new order of Man. That is the only way we could come before God acceptably, as we have in the epistles “Jesus Christ come in flesh”, 1 John 4: 2. That points forward to a Man who supersedes Moses, to whom you have referred, and the whole approach Godward is dependent on the manhood of Christ. We have it in Hebrews: we approach “through the veil, that is, his flesh”, chap 10: 20. That is, what has come on to our vision now is a Man who has secured our approach to God on a perfect basis.
NRC That is helpful; so would it be right to say there is a lot to contemplate in these four or five verses with regard to “the Word became flesh”. God really had to reveal Himself in this way through coming “in flesh”. He brought out the law through Moses with regard to how man should be in relation to viewing God, but in relation to it being in truth and grace it had to be shown through a Man, did it not?
JTB None of that weakens the fact that He took human form, taking part in flesh and blood; that condition was given up, but the order of that manhood went through and, as of that order, we can be acceptable to God.
KRC It is “man in our image, after our likeness” (Gen 1: 26) in the opening of Genesis. It looks on to that order of Man that God had in mind, the perfection of what has been seen in the Lord Himself. Heaven declares its delight in relation to this One.
JTB The expression to which reference has been made, “as of an only-begotten with a father” is, I suppose, that He exhibited in perfection all the qualities and characteristics that an only-begotten should express. The Lord Jesus did that. Later in the chapter there is a direct reference to “the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father”, v 18. That is a direct reference to His position and His status, “the only-begotten Son”, but in verse 14, which we started with, it is “as of an only-begotten with a father”. I was thinking of the counterpart, the bride: she comes down from heaven “as a bride”, Rev 21: 2. That is greater in a sense than the direct appellation of the bride because you can have a bride who does not fulfil all the qualities of a bride, but “prepared as a bride” means that she expresses everything that pertains by way of quality and characteristic to what is proper to a bride.
DCB So you see what is moral. It is certainly shown before the official glory comes out. The official position rightly is He is “the only-begotten Son”, but His excellence has become clear to His disciples before that.
THB I was wondering if more could be said about these two qualities, “grace and truth”; why it is that these two qualities are drawn attention to here? There were lots of other qualities that came out in the Lord and were resident in Him, but I just wondered why it was these two here.
NRC Note ‘e’, to “grace and truth subsists through Jesus Christ”, is helpful; I was reading that as you were speaking, it goes on to say there, ‘They began to exist de facto down here. The verb is singular, and “grace and truth” go together in the person of Christ. Nothing subsisted by the law, it was a rule given; but grace and truth actually commenced to be, not in God’s mind of course, but in revelation and actual existence down here’. So, they go completely together in the Person of Christ. It is something that was completely new, and I think that is the difference between the truth given by Moses and what we see here in regard to Christ. It was a completely new order of things which was seen solely in a Man. Is that right what I am saying?
JTB The Lord Jesus Himself is the Truth, is He not? That is always the case, and He refers to Himself in that way: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life”, John 14: 6. But grace is really the way in which it has been made known to us in this same blessed Man. Grace is sometimes referred to as the oil which makes things work. You find that that the Lord’s pathway exhibited that, the expression of grace to its fullest, and expressed the heart of God in that way. It brings out the way divine love has taken in order that what is for God, the answer to His affections, should be secured.
THB We speak of this as the dispensation which is in grace. This was the beginning of a new dispensation and it is centred in Christ.
NRC I think that is good. I think that is important. Perhaps we can contemplate that more, if the Lord will, as we go through this gospel, as everything being centred around Him. That is really the dispensation we live in today that there is such a Man in whom grace and truth subsists, solely in that Person. It is a wonderful time we live in, where we can see all of God’s workings and the way that He has been revealed through a blessed Man.
JTB One of the great characteristics of the dispensation, as Ephesians tells us, is “ye are saved by grace” (chap 2: 5); that is very wonderful to contemplate. Of course, we are saved by virtue of the finished work of Christ and His shed blood, but Ephesians is the summit of the expression of God’s blessings for men, and you have this interjection, “ye are saved by grace”; so it flows through every divine thought in that way of blessing for us, do you think?
DCB I was thinking about the two statements about God, that “God is love” (1 John 4: 8) and that “God is light” (1 John 1: 5), and wondering whether that really was something of a background to the way in which this has come out. Grace is love in operation in the sphere of what is contrary; truth is the light in operation in the sphere of what is contrary. The Lord as coming in displayed here what the heart of God is, but He displayed it in a way that is appropriate to the sphere of contradiction to God.
RCT Would it be right to say there were moral qualities?
JTB It has often been said that grace makes us fit for the position into which we are introduced; so there must be a moral aspect to it that provides the ingredient by which we can be introduced into these positions so blessed.
RCT We are still in the dispensation of grace.
KG What would the significance of “grace upon grace” be? I was thinking in Romans there is grace overabounding (chap 5: 20); I wondered if that linked.
JTB It has often been referred to (JT vol 85 p 90) as wave upon wave of divine grace flowing towards us and, in one sense, overwhelming us, but on the other hand sustaining us in what pertains to our privilege as before God.
THB I was thinking of your reference to these being moral qualities. I think it has been said these moral qualities in the Lord Jesus could not be hid; they were to be taken account of in those that came into contact with Him.
JTB You often refer to David; he expresses this, do you think?
NRC This was the first time there was a Man who was morally fit to manifest both of these. We see so many great examples of men in previous dispensations. What a man David was, but really this was the first time - and I think what you said about what is moral is helpful - that there was a Man in the scene who was morally fit for both truth and grace.
DCB Is it wonderful to see what did come out in the old dispensation, and persons with certain moral qualities, and so many of them looked forward to Christ, and were typical of Christ; but we see that really something comes into being in the incoming of Christ that had simply never been in this scene before; it was seen in God coming near in manhood?
NRC It is interesting how quickly John the baptist sees that; he says about Jesus, “the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to unloose”. So John really sees that, and we see that in relation to the way that he viewed Jesus as being the Lamb of God, and so on. I was impressed this week in reading this chapter as to the many different titles and characters that are shown in this one chapter that John the evangelist refers to; so he must have had a clear view of the moral greatness of the Person that was before him.
DCB And John the baptist says twice, “he was before me”. He has some impression of One that is God come near, One who existed before John existed. There is an impression that this is the “I am” come in to be seen in the creation which He had made.
SCL Do you think as well the biggest difference between the dispensations, the old dispensation and the coming in of the Lord, is that in the old dispensation the children of Israel were given something to strive for, but when the Lord came in there was a visual representation of what was pleasing in the sight of God that had never existed before?
NRC I think so. It is quite clear that even in John’s account they were visibly taken with the moral greatness of the Person. That was really the thought in taking up this book, to contemplate the Person, who He is. We read and were speaking in the house before we came out as to the Lord’s death, of those three hours of darkness; but what it must have been like to have actually see the Lord. It must have been such a remarkable thing to see Someone who was morally perfect in every way, and I think that is obviously what John saw here. It is a great dispensation that we live in because we can still see Him in that way. One of the glories of Christ is that we see Him in His current position as ascended on high. We may not have seen Him, naturally speaking, as they did in this short dispensation of the Lord’s life, but we can still see that Person where He is now.
GB Is it right to think that the Lord still maintains this position, standing: “In the midst of you stands, whom ye do not know”? That would be right there. The Lord is the test to every man.
NRC I think so. It is quite a thing to contemplate. Do we see Him? That is the question. Do we see Him standing before us? Is He in our view? Perhaps gathering together in meetings, as we do, is one thing, but do we see the Lord before us? That is something in itself. And do we see Him for who He is as John does?
GB It also says of Jesus “having looked around on all things”, Mark 11: 11. He was taking account in His lifetime, short as it was in this scene, of what man had made of the blessedness of what God had in mind should be the conditions.
JTB I suppose positionally the Lord has “set himself down on the right hand of the greatness on high” (Heb 1: 3), but in terms of His place in our affections He should occupy that place. Is that what you had in mind? Joseph’s sheaf “rose up, and remained standing” (Gen 37: 7), and “Jesus came and stood in the midst”, John 20: 19. In that sense He is prominent in our affections aside from what He is positionally as seated at God’s right hand.
KRC Is there a sober side to this too in what has been highlighted, if I am reading it right, “In the midst of you stands, whom ye do not know”? Is that something we can take to ourselves in the context of what has been highlighted?
DCB Earlier there is a reference “and the world knew him not”, v 10. Really, you see the contrast there. Someone like John could see Him and glorify Him. He says, “Behold the Lamb of God”; so, as you say, that would be a test for us whether by faith, by the Spirit, we see Him.
SCL When it says John sees Him, it says, “he sees Jesus coming to him”. I had never noticed that before; I always had the impression that John just bore witness to Jesus, but here it says, “On the morrow he sees Jesus coming to him”. There almost seems to be a personal interaction there. Speaking reverently and respectfully, it is not just a seeing of the Person but also an interaction with the Person. Would that be right?
DCB Yes, because it is interesting that John has to say, “I knew him not”. It would seem from Luke’s gospel that there are family connections. We do not want to speculate, but it is as if John might have met Jesus before, but he has not had that transaction that you are suggesting until this point. There is a point where all he has been speaking about really comes to him personally. He comes into the virtue and the value of “the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world”.
NRC Say more as to the section from verse 29 onwards. John says, “Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world”. The last time we were here a brother spoke about the sacrifice, the offering, the Lamb of God. John saw that. Does this section from verse 29 onwards bring out the character of Himself as being the perfect Offering? It goes on to speak about Israel in the next section as well. What would you say about the Lamb of God?
DCB Well, it does bring out something of His excellence as the Sacrifice in the sight of God. He has rights though as the Lamb of God, so that taking away the sin of the world encompasses not only His sacrificial service but His taking up His rights in the world to come, and everything being cleared and set according to the divine view at that time.
NRC What you say about “the sin of the world” is helpful, and that is important, is it not? It is not sins as such: it is “the sin of the world”; so before God it is cleansed. Our sins are one thing, but God has been completely satisfied through the work of Jesus for taking away the sin of the world.
JTB We are never to lose sight of that. The reference in Revelation to “a Lamb standing, as slain” (chap 5: 6) is very affecting. The sufferings of Jesus and what it cost Him to take away “the sin of the world” would always be in our affections, do you think?
SCL Do you think there is also something in it that Jesus comes to a man that affords Him His place, His titles? Our brother mentioned His rights. You see everything about John here is all about the Lord. It is what is due to the Lord. There is nothing about John. As a result Jesus comes to him; is there something in that?
NRC I think so. I cannot say much about it, but I think, going back to what was mentioned about “In the midst of you stands” means He stands because He has the right to do so, and John recognised that.
SCL You almost get the impression that John wants to see this Person and as a result the Lord can come in. Would it be right to say there is a certain liberty there because John is really a person that is prepared to give the Lord everything that is due? Does that create a sense of liberty?
NRC Yes, I am sure it does. In knowing Him, there is a desire to know more about Him, and there is a liberty there to want to know that Man, and I suppose in some ways John would have felt the same way. It must have been something to be in this time when the Man of glory really was in their midst. Why would you not want to know more of that Man?
JTB In chapter 3 John says, “He must increase, but I must decrease”, v 30. It is a fine position to take there. But what wonderful light he appears to have as to the bride and the bridegroom, “the friend of the bridegroom” (v 29) too. I suppose John would have some sense of that, would he not?
SCL It is quite a contrast. I do not want to bring in what is negative, but the Pharisees, for instance, had no desire to give the Lord His place and they had no desire to know anything more about Him; but John here gets all these wonderful impressions and insights, and I suppose that can be our portion as well. It just requires a person that is prepared to put themselves aside and let the Lord have His place.
DCB I wondered about the significance of baptism, therefore. I was thinking about the importance of baptism if we are going to come into what you are suggesting. It involves, really, that what there is according to the flesh is dealt with. The Lord has been into death, and we would accept that as the place appropriate to us. It is the baptism of repentance here - it has not quite reached on to Christian baptism - but still that principle is shown, and it is those who take up that principle that are going to come into the benefit of the knowledge of the Lamb of God.
THB In chapter 3: 16 it says, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son”, and I wondered if the reference to the Lamb of God just showed how closely the Lord Jesus was of that same mind. There was going to be a need for Someone to provide the basis for God coming out in blessing in the sacrifice.
JTB I suppose Abraham and Isaac bring that out: “Take now thy son, thine only son, whom thou lovest” (Gen 22: 2), just bringing out the intimacy of affection that existed between the Father and the Son, and what it cost the Father to relinquish what was most precious to Him. Is that what you had in mind?
THB Yes, it was just the reference to God, “For God so loved the world”, but here was One who was to provide that sacrifice whereby God could come out in blessing and make His heart of love known to mankind.
KRC In relation to what you said as to Abraham and Isaac, and the giving of the Son, did Isaac not carry the wood himself? There is something drawn out there in the greatness of the thought of the Lord and the fact that He gave Himself in that sense.
JTB That is interesting. It says, “Abraham took the wood of the burnt-offering, and laid it on Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and the knife, and they went both of them together”, Gen 22: 6. It is very interesting that the wood was laid on Isaac, was it not? And then they proceeded to the place of sacrifice. If we look beyond Isaac himself, would it bring before us the fact that the Lord knew what was before Him?
KRC That is helpful. That is what I had been thinking; so it really draws out the perfection of His manhood, the fact that He knew what was before Him. Even as a young boy He was occupied in His Father’s business, Luke 2: 49. The Lord Himself was intelligent to these things, what would become of His own life, and not just the giving of His life but the fact that He would become that perfect Offering and be forsaken of God. He knew these things would happen, do you think?
JTB There are some very interesting highlights in the gospels where the Lord draws attention to the fact that He was going to be delivered up and suffer; then that very affecting reference, “Rise up, let us go hence”, John 14: 31. What that would entail for the holy Sufferer! You referred to these three hours on the cross, the conscious sense of the relationship to be broken during these three awful hours; what going hence meant for Him!
RCT There was no “ram caught in the thicket” (Gen 22: 13) for Christ. He went into death.
JTB It is very affecting to think of that. He alone, the One in whom “grace and truth subsists” had to lay down His life. It makes it doubly affecting to our spirits that such a One, in whom these qualities existed, had to lay down His life.
DCB This really is as soon as the Lord appears before men as He does in verse 29. As soon as He appears the fact that it is a pathway to death is brought before us in that He is the Lamb of God. The whole pathway really has in view the issue He has to take up, when everything is finished.
GB Could something be said about the presence of the Spirit in verses 32 and 33? “I beheld the Spirit descending as a dove from heaven, and it abode upon him”, and then, “Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and abiding on him, he it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit”; it brings the Godhead into view in a certain way. The Lord Jesus was led of the Spirit in relation to the temptations, led into the wilderness, Luke 4: 1, 2. The presence of the Holy Spirit is significant here. Would you say something?
KRC I had been thinking that too, and I had just been contemplating what it says in Matthew’s gospel because it is interesting there. In Matthew’s gospel it draws out the fact that John wavered slightly in relation to that the suggestion that he would baptise the Lord. Why would he baptise the Lord? But the Lord corrects him there. The Lord speaks about fulfilling righteousness and so on (chap 3: 15), and it is only from then that the heavens are opened when the Lord ascends from the water. This will be John’s view, “he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him” (v 16) and then the voice. I wondered if there was something of the perfection of righteousness being fulfilled, and then heaven’s delight being displayed, but that was for John’s benefit, was it not? It is not presented as being noticed by others. It was only John saw “the Spirit descending as a dove”.
GB It was only such a One as the Lord Jesus upon whom the Holy Spirit could descend and abide; this continues. Going back to the days of Noah, “the dove found no resting-place for the sole of her foot” (Gen 8: 9), but there is a perfect reception of the Spirit and distinction by the Spirit of the Lord Jesus.
NRC Referring to what you said about the fact that the Godhead was witnessed here in relation to the Spirit descending, I was impressed with that last verse of the section, “And I have seen and borne witness that this is the Son of God”. It is interesting to see that, that John really had the knowledge of seeing these things. My mind was taken to the centurion who at the cross said, “Truly this man was Son of God” (Mark 15: 39), but here this is seeing Him as the Son of God in a completely different realm. He is seeing Him as part of the Godhead really.
EDINBURGH
27th September 2020
Key to Initials (all from Edinburgh):-
G Bailey; T H Bailey; D C Brown; J T Brown; K R Cumming; N R Cumming; K Grant; S C Lock; R C Trotter