GOD’S WAYS AND HIS PRAISE
Nehemiah 12: 31-43
Romans 15: 5-7
1 Corinthians 10: 17
DAB We had some remarks in the reading yesterday afternoon about the rebuilding of the wall by Nehemiah, and the way it became a pathway for the choirs, and they led me to refresh my recollection of what it says about the choirs. I was struck when I read it, that whatever ways God’s people take, whether in privilege or responsibility, they have in view, under God, that there might be oneness in His praise. That was an insight into God’s ways which I thought we might share together. These other scriptures came to mind to confirm that thought. The God of endurance and encouragement is also the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and both thoughts lead to oneness. “Now the God of endurance and of encouragement give to you to be like-minded one toward another”; and “that ye may with one accord, with one mouth, glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ”. And in Corinthians we have “we, being many” - which would speak of the diversity of God’s people, of which there is a cross-section here. Part of that diversity is background, and part of it is experience, but we are one loaf, which is a wonderful idea to contemplate.
Those two things confirm the thought I had about the wall, and I would like to point out some things about these choirs, to prompt the brethren. I do not want to claim that I can explain what all these references might mean. I have found that young people are sometimes a little bit dubious at our attempts to put labels on pictures in the Old Testament - how do you know that this speaks of that? To use an example I have used before, how do you know that the thorn is a reference to the flesh? But these details will suggest things to the brethren. When I read verse 37, which is the route taken by the first choir, I thought it suggested ideas which might describe the kind of weekend we have had together. There has been a fountain, there is an ascent, we have drawn on what belongs to Christ, suggested in this reference to David, and so on. This route seems to suggest in a general way, which the brethren might be able to open up, the side of privilege. And it looks at the history of the journey of the children of Israel from a very happy and positive direction; in a sense it recalls their brightest days. So the route of that choir might speak of how those bright days can be recovered.
The details in the journey of the second choir are rather different; there are furnaces, there is a prison, and there are towers, and so on. But it is not all negative, because there is a sheep-gate, which was the first one to be rebuilt. I thought the journey of that choir might relate more to the testimony, which comes with problems, exercises and sorrows; but it includes the gospel, and it includes the gathering in of souls, beneath their priestly care. All these things may be related to exercises of the way. I think I could show that this journey also paints the story of the history of Israel, including the prison gate; perhaps that represents the present state of Israel.
But then it says, “both choirs stood in the house of God”. So these two routes move in opposite directions - one celebrating their privilege, the other recalling their responsibility in their testimony. Both sides of God’s ways with them - for God’s ways with us are not all exercise - brought them together in the house of God. There is an account here of the service that then proceeded. Is that intelligible?
WSC I think it gives us some interest because this second choir ends in the prison; and of Paul and Silas, who “in praying, were praising God with singing”, Acts 16: 25. But I do not know how they got into the house of God: they were up on the wall.
DAB Well, the answer that fits my thought is that that was God’s desire. We have in our hymn,
We shall be with Him where He is,
For such is His desire; (Hymn 144).
I was sharing with a brother yesterday references to the psalm where the Babylonians wanted the Israeli captives to sing, and there were good reasons to refuse, but they hung their harps on the willows, Ps 137. You might say they had to fend off the Babylonians, but how God must have felt the fact that those harps were silent: Israel as it were in the prison gate. And there is another psalm,
Praise waiteth for thee in silence, O God, in Zion,
Ps. 65: 1.
That may correspond to a prison gate. What an interlude in God’s ways with His people! How He feels that.
GMC Could you say that the house of God was in the choirs not the other way around? They obviously would not all fit in the structure that had been built, but up on the wall the house of God was there.
DAB Yes; so the service did not depend upon them actually going in. That is a very good thought. It says that God dwells “amid the praises of Israel”, Ps 22: 3. In order for God to dwell in the praises of Israel, there has to be a uniting process. What impressed me is that all His ways with us, in which there is a blend of privilege and exercise, should be understood by us as intended by God to converge on that end. The reference, “we, being many” is to the diversity of the company; but the idea that the company should simply be forced into some kind of uniformity would not suit God; that is not His thought. He rejoices in the diversity; look at the creation, for example, and the wonder of it. But the thought that there is diversity does not mean that He has to accept a scattered answer. He is great enough and wise enough to bring all that together, and the Supper is a celebration of that: “we, being many, are one loaf”.
JFK I was wondering if it is important to remember that, before the choirs could even walk around on the walls the walls had to be rebuilt, there was a lot of collective effort that went into it. But just finishing the walls themselves was not the objective; there had to be the response to God. Is that helpful at all?
DAB Yes, I am glad you say that. We were recalling over the weekend what I was taught by a brother in our meeting that the wall represents something that is substantially formed in God’s people. It is not simply that we walk round on principles, but there is something built up in the hearts of His people, and, of course, according to this book, recovered too. And that is priestly work, the way we serve one another. Another very important dimension to what you say is that work was undertaken by households. There are women and children in the service, but the women and the children helped with the building as well. In fact, I have noticed that, while the trades are given for a lot of the people, there was not a stonemason among them. So this is not a matter of natural ability - jewellers were building a wall. It shows that this work was of God. What was it for? Why is God building something up in me? How do I account for the fact that what He is building in you is distinct from what He is building in me? How do I account for the exercise that your household has, which is not the exercise I have? Where is the thread that runs through all this? The thread, I think, that runs through it is His objective to be praised. I think that is a very elevating view, not only of my personal exercises; as you rightly imply, they certainly should inform our understanding of what He is pleased to pass us through together.
RBH “I after them” - that is Nehemiah. And he went the way that would symbolise the difficulties. He was the one that was instrumental in all these things being overcome. I was imagining that some might stop and look at the difficulties and he would encourage them to keep going. We do not want to be engaged with the difficulties.
DAB Yes, that is right. We often speak about the way Palestinian shepherds led their sheep - and that is different from the way English shepherds operate - but here Nehemiah follows, does he not? He would gather up anyone who was distracted by the difficulties. He was a man that had divine objectives in his heart. It is a like what Paul says to Corinth; it is almost as if Nehemiah would say as to the choir: “we, being many, are one loaf”.
RBH Yes, stragglers would not be in the position to take part in the praise of God, if they stayed back.
DAB Yes, that is right, but there were not any stragglers, which is, I think, the encouraging thing.
DMW That really represents the leadership, does it not?
DAB Yes, there are several different ways of looking at leadership. One way of looking at leadership is that a leader knows where he is going. Sometimes leaders think people ought to follow them because they think they know better, but I think what is being suggested is that there was a brother whose leadership led him to follow the choir, because he wanted to ensure that they reached God’s end.
DMW The most important formation militarily is the rear guard; and if you do not have adequate leadership there to gather up so that everybody continues in movement, there will be defeat.
DAB Yes, I think I understand that. And does it not say somewhere that the glory of Jehovah would be their rearguard, Isa 58: 8? He took up that key position in relation to the journey of the children of Israel. It says the cloud moved behind the people, Exod 14: 19. Why was that? It certainly was not that they should stop. God says, “Speak unto the children of Israel, that they go forward”, Exod 14: 15. That is at the beginning of the journey, but what was God’s end? God’s end was His praise.
WSC The Lord says, “When he has put forth all his own, he goes before them”, John 10: 4. That is a little different to this but He puts them forth; first He has to be behind them to do that.
DAB Yes, that is a very encouraging way the truth is presented; we follow because we are attracted. We follow out of love and out of attachment. But there is this other side here that the Lord in grace would not fail to bring us all to God’s end.
KAO In John 20 there is this well-known reference to the first day of the week, and the doors were shut where the disciples were through fear of the Jews, but then we have the Lord coming - “Jesus came”, John 20: 19. I wonder if that summarises a little bit this testimonial position. It is sometimes not just stragglers, if I can put it that way, who need help. We gather with certain burdens and cares that weigh on us, but what we look for is the Lord to manifest Himself, and make room for that.
DAB Yes, I wanted to put the right word on the course that the second choir took, a word that encompasses the furnace and the sheep-gate. The span of the thought covers the whole side on which, according to Romans, we need the God of endurance and all encouragement. God is able to cover such a span and that is one whole facet of His ways with us. The other side is privilege. There is the fountain, there is an ascent, and there is what David speaks of in his house, and those sorts of things. We should not be unbalanced in our minds because these are like two sides of a coin; you cannot have one without the other.
KAO My exercise in mentioning that scripture is that we need to be real about the circumstances that we actually do face, and not pretend that there are not difficulties and things that weigh on our spirits; but to know something about this God of endurance and encouragement and to prove that when we assemble.
DAB I do not think that anyone who takes responsibility among the brethren should be glib, because brethren who are concerned will begin to feel that their concerns are belittled. The fact that I do not share some of those concerns may not mean that they are not substantial; they may certainly look substantial to others. What I am hoping to do is to show that God has something in mind in everything He passes people through, whether it is personal, whether it is bereavement, illness and such things; whether it is worry, pressure, set-backs, disappointments, whatever it may be, anxiety about relationships, anxiety about the future among the brethren, all those kinds of things are real exercises. I remember a brother speaking in relation to the way 2 Corinthians begins - he said, that if He is the God of all encouragement, that means you will not find any encouragement anywhere else, because it is all there. How gracious of God to bring the totality of a resource like that into a company like Corinth.
JKK Is it helpful to see that all of this was built by persons, so that the ground was built up, the wall was built up and there had to be trust that whoever it was, whether it was the jeweller that built that wall or someone else, that they built it properly. In a company we may find persons that have gone through these exercises in a very personal way, and we can appreciate that through them, through what they have worked out and built up.
DAB Yes. I do not want to set aside the responsible thought you are bringing in, but Paul also says, “ye are God’s husbandry, God’s building”, 1 Cor 3: 9. God’s building turns into a wall if I connect myself to what God is doing, because there is a call to have part in this work which has to be answered to. We must not overlook that side, but the grace and the power and the material and the survivability of the material is accounted for by its divine origin. How wonderful it is that God should give us things that belong to Him to build with. You might ask where that building is: it is in you and me. That is why I can count on the quality of the workmanship in you. I am not counting on things you have imagined: I am counting on things God has done in you.
LPC It says that “they stood still in the prison-gate”. In Psalm 46 it says, “Be still, and know that I am God”, v 10. God will be exalted among the nations. Do you think that we have to minimise all distraction in order that we might stand still, and be focused and fix our eyes on God coming to His house?
DAB Yes, I think there is a lot in what you say. Nehemiah presumably stopped with them in the prison gate. Now we are not going to remain in the prison gate, surely; then it goes on to say “both choirs stood in the house of God”. We might understand that better. But if we apply this teaching to the history of Israel, in a sense Romans 9, 10 and 11 discuss the prison gate, when there is an intermission in Israel’s response. I mean Israel was called to praise: “ye shall be to me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation”, Exod 19: 6. That was where the service of God was to be. And now the harps are hung on the willows, and praise waits in silence. They have their synagogues but there is no altar. Israel is separated from its God, and their praise is silent. How God feels that! It is good just to remember that God’s feelings are engaged in this whole process. It is as if Paul asks in Romans 9, 10 and 11 whether God can be frustrated. Have they stopped in the prison gate? “Far be the thought”, Paul says, “how much rather their fulness?”; “what their reception … ”, Rom 11: 11, 12, 15.
DMW So the setting of Nehemiah is recovery, but it is a remnant situation. The hearts of those who are engaged in this would not in any way forget the thought of what Israel was to God or what Jerusalem is to be for God. Would you say as to the prison gate that, if we see the moral and spiritual application at the present time, we would have to stand still about it?
DAB That is where I am coming to; I am not just talking about Israel, although I think God would have Christian believers feel the state of Israel, and its apostasy at the present time. An intelligent Christian believer would feel that. Mr Darby says in his early ministry ‘you know I love a Jew (how rarely are they brought) when they love the Lord’, Letters vol 1 p1. But there is plenty in the Christian position that would make us feel similarly, would it not?
DMW Yes, it would. It would actually, in one sense, raise our thoughts about ourselves to the thoughts that Christ has for the assembly, and how He feels about this, and that the remnant character and condition of things, and Paul’s ministry being in captivity publicly. I think we enter into His feelings which are a bit above our feelings, do you think?
DAB Yes. As a child, I used to hear this word ‘remnant’ in a meeting and it puzzled me, because my mother looked out for remnants to make clothes from because they were cheaper. And I wondered to myself about brethren talking about the remnant - and if this might be something cheap. And then when I started reading the ministry, brothers put it to Mr James Taylor that the remnant is not the ‘fag-end’; and in one place he says, ‘as to quality, it is essentially equal to the prime thing’, (vol 49 p217); I learned from him that the remnant carries all the moral and spiritual features of the whole: it is the depositary of the original. And that is a challenging exercise. But we see that idea in the choirs, do we not? All the moral and spiritual features of the whole, moulded and blended by an appreciation of the way they had come, enriched the service of praise.
WSC I think what has been said is really important because these persons are all named here. It could have just said, ‘and the priests’ but it named each one. I think of divine interest in us - we need to accept that, and acknowledge that God has an interest in us, therefore He names all of these people.
DAB Yes, and according to the previous section they had to be gathered, as if they had made themselves hamlets - these priests were not living in Jerusalem, There was a special blessing if you were willing to dwell in Jerusalem (Neh 11: 2), but the priests were not dwelling in Jerusalem. They had allowed things to settle out into a more fragmented sort of idea, like the denominations. You walk around the streets of Wheaton, and you will find these “hamlets” with people seeking to serve God scattered in a diverse way. But they were to be part of the choir, and then it is as if God said, ‘Well, there are your ways’ - He says His ways are higher than our ways, Isa 55: 9. But His ways have these two main strands - they are what we learn from privilege, and they are what we learn in the pathway of exercise and responsibility. And He is able to plait those two strands into a wonderful unity which releases His praise; that is His objective. I am not saying there is not praise along the way, but that is God’s thought.
RBH Would standing still in the prison gate - lead us to see that we can never forget where we came from?
DAB Exactly. They actually started in the dung gate. There are things that have to be carried out and away. Then what you say is right. And the furnace too - you would never forget a furnace, would you? “The furnace of affliction”, Isa 48: 10. We might take account of Joseph, for example; he would never forget what he had passed through. But his heart turned to God, did it not? We had an address last Saturday on what he said: “but God”, Gen 45: 8. I think that is something we should see in all our exercises. I am not saying that means we should rush through them, or close them down in an untimely way. In a sense, they have to run their course in God’s hands. But He allows nothing that does not have this in view. And frankly, if I had an intuition that a course of exercise was leading me away from this, I would be wary of it.
RBH So there is the One, there is the Deliverer that set us free.
DAB Yes, exactly, but He set us free to approach. He said He did not set His people free to scatter. I like this idea, and I am very struck with the way in Romans in which we have the oneness on both sides. “The God of endurance and of encouragement give to you to be like-minded one toward another” - which is something we need practically; but also, “that ye may with one accord, with one mouth, glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ”. So there are those two unities. You may say one would lead to the other; that may be true. But it shows that whatever view we take of God’s ways with us, they have that convergent force in them.
GMC When you come to Revelation the gates are not named, are they? What is called attention to is the material that produced them - the one pearl. I wonder if that is related to our experience of learning what these gates are, and are worked out, but no names are used.
DAB Yes, and each gate was of one pearl. Do you understand they were twelve pearls?
GMC I have learned recently that a pearl is worthless once it is broken.
DAB Yes, it is, and it would be folly to even cut into one. There is a precious harmony in the holy city - whichever way you approach it you see that. And that should be seen in our gatherings. There are a number of gatherings represented here today, and it will be some time sadly before I see most of the brethren here again, but there should be something in London that corresponds to what I feel I am leaving here, that has that character; and certainly, we feel that in the service of praise that oneness is accomplished. We sang Hymn 292 this morning
O God, supreme in majesty.
We once visited a sister who never gets to the Supper, and she said that when the brethren are meeting for the Supper, she liked to imagine what they are enjoying. And she thought it is encapsulated in that hymn; so she said, ‘I sit here and sing it’. That is like the one pearl, is it not?
GMC You are speaking about oneness; so I would tend to think it is just one pearl that is given expression to in each place like you say.
DAB Yes, that is so sweet to think that there is a sister, who is led by the Spirit, to see what another gathering is enjoying in such a light. And the God of endurance is behind that. But the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is behind it as well.
HJK It specifically says it was twelve pearls - “twelve gates, twelve pearls”, Rev. 21: 21.
DMW The one pearl was inside.
DAB Yes, it is the same material: I appreciate that adjustment. What a view you would have of the city. You would hardly be able to tell which side you were approaching it from because it would look the same as the others.
DMW Paul’s ministry forms what is inside. The twelve apostles of the Lamb would speak of what is external.
DAB Yes, that is true, and we remember that the Lord speaks of seeking goodly pearls, and He found one, Matt 13: 45. I wonder if that merchant would ever have been satisfied with two or three. Did he rather have this feeling that his heart would not be satisfied unless he could find one? Was there some sublime expression of his heart’s desire that could be found? And we know the pearl represents what the assembly is in divine counsel. We need to understand that God’s counsel is not something that is parked while His ways are driven by the vagaries of the territory and environment that might be encountered among the people. God’s counsels enter into His ways. He cannot be hindered in those ways; so it is as well that we know what they are. My impression is that His ways lead up to oneness in His praise.
JAO Why do you think it says that “the singers sang loud”? There is to be some evidence really of being thoroughly in things, in the testimony that is rendered, the “great sacrifices”, the “great joy”, and the “joy of Jerusalem was heard even afar off”. This is not the same experience that is accounted in Ezra 3: 13, where it was mingled with weeping. This was pure, unmingled joy.
DAB That is very fine, is it not? - “joy unmingled”, Hymn 88. There is such a mixture in God’s ways that the product must be a blend. There is another occasion when there was joy and weeping at the same time, but God is looking for joy unmingled. I am thinking too of what the Lord says about the stones, “the stones will cry out” (Luke 19: 40), and that made me consider what was asked about: this is in the saints, is it not? And there is something quickened and living that we have been speaking about that expresses itself at volume; this is not a whisper or a gasp. This is the energy of recovered lives.
GMC The Lord cried out with a loud voice on the cross (Matt 27: 46), and I am wondering if this is related to that victory, that we come into.
DAB Yes, that is a very precious thought, that He did not die in weakness. What a mighty shout that is, that He died in divine power, and we celebrate that, and the celebration of it should be living.
JAO He also cried out in John 7.
DAB Yes, how pleasing it is to God if there is this full-heartedness. Our hymn says,
Our satisfied hearts to outpour in His praise.
(Hymn 257)
It is not just unity for its own sake, but for the volume and harmony that all the people together would be able to generate. It is very interesting that the women and children have their part in it. I make another appeal to the children - and I really do not want to appear patronising as I value God’s work in them - but this is for them too. They might say they have not had all these experiences, but they have a place in the house. You will have the experiences if the Lord waits.
HJK You suggest that the gates here are all different, but when you come to the holy city every gate is exactly the same. That is why it says that each one was of one pearl, and so that is what God is going to bring in. We had that a little in the service of God this morning, “that God may be all in all’ (1 Cor 15: 28); so when it comes to that it says, “I saw no temple in it … and the lamp thereof the Lamb”, Rev 21: 22-23. I think it all leads on, in the sense that we have been talking about, to the eternal state when there will be no difference - all will be one in Christ.
DAB A pearl is an interesting thing, because it reflects a lot of different colours; it reflects a spectrum, and the integrity of the pearl is its oneness. In a sense the diversity and variety is internalised, and while we are on the journey we are learning inwardly. And while we are learning, God presents things to us one at a time, and for that reason the gates speak of different things; they are different lessons. I do not think it is amiss that the first gate in the rebuilding was the sheep-gate. We remarked that it was the only gate that is not said to have locks. It had to be closed, but no locks are mentioned, and it was built by a priest and a priest’s family. The priest in question failed later on. But the sheep-gate was not to let sheep out; the sheep-gate was for sheep coming in. It is interesting that that is where the rebuilding started, and that is why I thought that our testimonial history includes the gospel. This choir came to that gate, so that God’s ways in the gospel are brought into this story. God’s ways in the gospel have in view His praise. I have been very interested to read Mr James Taylor - he speaks of the Lord and the woman in Luke 7, and he says: ‘the house did not belong to Christ. Do you think He would have sent her away? No, I am sure the Lord felt it that He did not have a house of His own’. But then he adds, ‘He will never send you away. He will not say "Go". Why? He has a house now’, vol 1 p35-36. And that is where His praise proceeds.
KAO Regarding the scripture in Romans 15, is it helpful for us to note the setting of the verses you have read? I am particularly thinking about bearing infirmities, but also not pleasing ourselves. We have that very fine expression, “For the Christ also did not please himself”, v 3. Does that not underlie the whole working out of praise and what is due to God?
DAB I think what you are drawing attention to is a necessary stage in the process. We often speak about the epistle to the Romans as charting the journey for us all. There are a lot of things along that journey that I have to learn. I would not say it is entirely prescriptive because God’s ways with every one are specific. At first, there is teaching that is personal, but then you come to a point in chapter 12 where you are converging with other people who have had similar paths of exercise. Of course, this is not simply so you can just share stories with them, but so that you can carry them and help them; and you will find probably that someone is trying to carry you. So that convergence is a second stage. We come together from something that appears to be quite internal, and maybe private almost, and then we start sharing things; and as we do, of course, the big question that comes up is like-mindedness. And Paul says, ‘There is a God for that’. But there is something further than like-mindedness; there is “one accord and one mouth”. Those who have come this way glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. I think it is practical; that is how it works. We have the same idea in one verse in 1 Corinthians: “we, being many, are one loaf”, chap 10: 17.
HJK You mentioned that the sheep-gate is not said to have any locks and bars, and it says that they built the sheep-gate, and they also had to build the fish-gate; but all the rest were just repaired. I just wondered if you had a further thought on that. I think it is interesting that there is one gate that did not have locks and bars, and it and another gate had been completely destroyed.
DAB Yes; that is rather sad when you think about the history - it shows where Satan is working - he is out to destroy completely what might speak about the gospel, and what speaks about fellowship, is he not? In a sense, ecclesiastical form does not bother him too much; it is where there is an engagement with souls that he gets busy. But Satan could not stop these gates being rebuilt; he could not stop the recovery. It is fine to see that they do not start the repairs with the easy gates; they start with the one that matters the most, which was the sheep-gate; they were concerned about souls coming in. Now as we move on through the book those souls who had worked on the wall get into the choirs, and they become the house. We can see why it was important to begin there, and why it was priestly, and why Satan was against it.
DHMcF Maybe you can help me as to Romans 15: 7, “Wherefore receive ye one another, according as the Christ also has received you to the glory of God”. Why would he say, “receive ye one another”?
DAB Well, fellowship is a privilege. And it is not simply a privilege to ask for fellowship; it is a privilege to extend fellowship as well. It is a privilege to be able to establish a relationship with someone who belongs to Christ and in whom God has worked; my building of the wall can now join to someone else’s. And “receive ye one another… to the glory of God” is a very elevated way of looking at fellowship. I think you have that view if you understand God’s objective: if you have in mind the holiness and preciousness of His praise, then the opportunity to share that with someone who has come the path of exercise and responsibility would be one you would grasp.
KAK Is that seen in Ananias? He is thinking about what the Lord is saying to him about His sheep.
DAB Yes, that is a good example: “And he was with the disciples”, Acts 9: 19. Paul saw the “me” of verse 4. And in a sense, he joined the choir. What it must have been like for Paul to be at the morning meeting the first week he was in Damascus! How uplifting it must have been. I heard of a visitor at the morning meeting a few months ago who said, ‘I have been to a lot of places but this is the first place I have come where the company seem to know that the Lord was present’. What an uplifting thing that is. It does not confer anything on the particular company; they did not realise they were giving that impression to people, but that is what we have here. There was a oneness. I am told that Mr James Taylor used to say to bring people to the Supper; they will see saints at their best. And that is what we have here. Being like-minded is a constant practical exercise, but the Supper is an occasion in which we can enjoy the benefits of that exercise, and God can as well in His praise.
DMW It just occurred to me when you spoke of like-mindedness, which is oneness, in fact, that essentially in the ways of God in Romans, each one of us has to be adjusted to be subject-minded, so that we can be like-minded.
DAB Good. I think you would agree that the only prospect of like-mindedness is to be like Christ. Naturally, we are not just made like that, are we? “But we have the mind of Christ”, 1 Cor. 2: 16. And it is as we sacrifice the defence of our own minds and our own opinions, in subjection not only to God but to one another.
DMW So we spoke about “joined in soul, thinking one thing”, in Philippians 2: 2, but immediately to sustain that we have, “let this mind be in you” (v 5); so that the principle of reduction on my side is important, and obedience, in view of expansion in the next chapter; is that right? The goal is set before us.
DAB Yes, and we have the same thought in Ephesians 5. Singing is a happy thing to do, and sometimes singing may mask that what is going on in my mind. Perhaps it is a bit selfish - I may want my voice to be heard above everybody else’s; and that tendency enters into exercise too. But then Paul says, “submitting yourselves to one another in the fear of Christ”, Eph. 5: 21. That is what produces the harmony that glorifies God. I do not understand the concept of fellowship without submission to one another. I am not saying submission to Mr So-and-So; I am saying there should be a spirit of subjection to what the Lord has in the body of the brethren.
GMC We had noticed recently in reading in Numbers 23 and 24, when the enemy came in to attack and curse God’s people, that Balaam goes up on the mountain and he sees order, and he sees perfection and beauty. If he had come down he would have seen what was going on, things that had to be dealt with, but I wonder if keeping that objectively in our hearts - how God views things - helps us to move forward in a right way.
DAB I think so, and it often used to be said, God did not let Balaam look in the tents.
Endurance mentioned here is part of a process in Romans 5. Paul says, “we have also access by faith into this favour in which we stand, and we boast in hope of the glory of God”, v 2. That is the experience of the first choir, and it all sounds very nice, but then it is not only that, but “we also boast in tribulations, knowing that tribulation works endurance; and endurance, experience; and experience, hope”, v 3-4. That is like the second choir, I think. Endurance does not mean indefinite bearing of something; endurance is bearing something with a prospect in mind as Paul says, “experience, hope; and hope does not make ashamed” (v 5); that means your hopes will not be disappointed. But sometimes exercise wears us down, and we think just to come out on the other side would be enough. There is to be a stepping forward to the unity in God’s praise. There is something particularly cleansing to the spirit: it washes all the bitterness and sorrow and cloudiness out of my spirit. If at the end there is something I had to endure, I can find others with whom I can praise.
KAO The verse before where you read confirms what has been said: “that through endurance and through encouragement of the scriptures we might have hope”, Rom 15: 4. There are both sides there, and it works towards this unity and oneness.
DAB Yes; I think it is helpful to remember what Paul says here about the value of the Scriptures. We remember what he says in Corinth, that the Scriptures are there for our admonition. But here he says they are for our encouragement.
I have thought quite a bit about meekness. It is not the same as lowliness because the Lord was both. And it is not necessarily the same as humility. I think meekness is only formed in God’s hands. Moses, for example, was an impulsive, impetuous person; forty years in God’s school made him the meekest man in all the earth. There is something particularly divine in the soul of a believer who is meek. It is not a natural trait; it is not a human characteristic. In my quest for some light on it, I read something of Mr Stoney which drew my attention to Psalm 25. It says two things about the meek. One is that it is “The meek will he guide in judgment, and the meek will he teach his way”, v 9. And that links with what was said just now that a meek person has opened his mind to divine guidance, and the spirit of that is priestliness; it is spirituality. I find I am so ineffective when it comes to restoration because I rely on my own sincerity, and my own goodwill and good intentions. But the resource for restoration is divine. And it is formed in the spirit of the believer, maybe over many, many years. A “meek and quiet spirit”, Petersays, “is of great price”, 1 Pet 3: 4. That is because it is rare. We ought to pray that it should be found among us. It is not just weakness, and it is not sentimentality or anything of that sort. It is a feature that was seen in Jesus, a very strong feature.
DMW It says, Christ Jesus “emptied himself”, Phil 2: 7. The food of life is in another kind of Person altogether. It is the work of God.
DAB Yes, it is, and we might sometimes imagine the work of God as if it is refining what is natural, but meekness is not a natural part of human nature. It comes entirely from God and where it is found it is besides what that person’s nature was.
If we really have the divine objective in our hearts it would make us dependent on divine grace and divine wisdom to bring it about. I hope we are left with an understanding that solving problems is not the divine objective; praise is the divine objective. Psalm 139 says, “I will praise thee, for I am fearfully, wonderfully made” (v 14); and I have been told that Mr James Taylor commented on that verse that ‘man was made to praise’. So even in the creation, what we are speaking of now that was recovered, was God’s objective.
KAO Iwas just going to confirm what you were saying about meekness. Paul would be ready for the Corinthians; he says, “I myself, Paul, entreat you by the meekness and gentleness of the Christ” (2 Cor 10: 1); it is not his.
DAB Yes, he was employing it, but it was something he was invoking, and he could really only point to another Man in whom it is.
KAO And would you agree that to whatever extent that was seen in Paul, it was largely brought out through suffering?
DAB Yes, it was. I am just impressed by that; we will go from here back into the path of exercise, and the travails of my own soul journey; of the reproach under which I may find myself, the exercise to be right-minded and work things out in fellowship, prayer and all those things. Let us not forget, beloved, that God’s objective in it all is His praise.
KRO It speaks of “the meek”. I was thinking that it defines; it can be a definition of a person as being perceived by God, can it not?
DAB Yes, “they shall inherit the earth”, Matt. 5: 5. The people who seek nothing get the most.
GMC Would the idea of meekness be brought in with the idea of the pearl - it is not a hard diamond, but is relatively soft, is it not?
DAB Yes, very good. And all these precious things of course are built up by a process, and that includes our privileges. This weekend has been part of the process. Maybe we have been able to put some of our burdens to one side this weekend, and I am glad if we have, but that does not mean to say we have left all our exercises because the privilege is part of those exercises.
JAO Meekness really has to do with our relations together, does it not? Is it man towards man, not so much towards God but towards one another? It is the spirit of a thing. It speaks in 2 Timothy 2: 25 as well about a spirit of meekness. That is the attitude in which we go.
DAB And it is not weakness, because it can set right those who oppose. You are up against force from the other side. So there is something very effective there, is there not?
DHMcL You referred to the ornament of the meek and quiet spirit, but it is incorruptible; that means it goes through. It does not fail with responsible history. It is part of what we will be to the eternal day.
DAB Yes, I think we would all have to be honest and say that the difficulties we try and meet are apt to taint us. I am always sorry if someone gets bitter, but even if they do not get bitter they get sad. And maybe sometimes eventually the brethren will come through but for a while some of us are a bit grumpy afterwards; we need something incorruptible I think. I have a feeling that the Lord would renew us out of our exercises with a fresh unity that finds its heart in His service.
DMW Would you say that there are certain features that follow the spirit of meekness, and are found in Christ and in service: the bondman’s form, humility, and obedience, even unto death? That is necessary, it was for Him, of course.
DAB Yes, that is worth contemplating, and if we go back to Matthew 11: 29 where He speaks of rest - that is a very precious thing, is it not? Where will you find rest? In the company of a meek and lowly Jesus - that is where you will find it. How many of our spirits need stilling in relation to testimonial burdens. You need something divine. Just being in a company of people who agree with you will not give you rest; it is the meek and lowly Man who will give you rest.
WSC It is interesting that the Lord gave us the Supper. In a physical sense it unites us, and it should in this sense, but it is not something grandiose as the world might have; it is a very simple expression.
DAB Well, our enquiry relates to the loaf, but certainly, in our culture we do not share a cup, do we? There is something unique in our associations with one another and in the cup at the Supper that we share it together. It is very intimate and it is very wonderful. If you take the men to whom the Supper was delivered, they were diverse. Some of them were natural brothers but that does not necessarily produce unity. It is rather sad in John 21 that maybe seven of them were interested in fishing, and perhaps four were not. So naturally speaking they had their own interests. The Lord proposed something that could be expanded rapidly as it is now, from the eleven, if you read the beginning of the Acts – “multiplied”, it says, Acts 6: 7. How much diversity is that bringing in? You imagine the meeting in Ephesus or Corinth. We know each other well; many of us are intermarried and we know each other well. In Corinth, most people there would have been unknown to each other. But Paul says, “we, being many”; the Lord has been able to put in the midst of such an environment one loaf.
WSC That is what I was thinking. It really is central to Christianity; it is central to our fellowship, but it is the Lord. He is the Centre of it.
DAB The Supper is at the heart of fellowship, and that is how we decide every question of fellowship, in relation to the Supper. But this is it set at its true level.
DMW You mentioned the cup. There is something beyond oneness which the loaf would suggest, and fellowship, fellowship of His death. There is something beyond, which we would desire to reach for the satisfaction of His own heart.
DAB You had better just say what the something is. Are you thinking of communion?
DMW That, and union. Oneness underlies union.
DAB The cup is linked to the new covenant. There are three steps in God’s ways; He does a work - in this case, the cross; He makes a promise - not that He may do something but that He will; and then He seals that with a covenant. That is a very precious thing. God is committed to the whole thing, and the work is done. And that is what we celebrate at the Supper.
DMW So the cup would suggest divine disposition in what He has done Himself, as a return to Himself.
DAB If we talk of dispositions, naturally humanly speaking we shift our dispositions; we change our angle on things. God’s disposition is fixed because the work is done - is that right? It is fixed in our favour; it is fixed for His glory.
Wheaton
29th November 2015
Key to Initials:-
D A Burr, London; G M Chellberg, Wheaton; W S Chellberg, Wheaton; L P Chin, Wheaton; R B Hill, Toronto; J F Kaczmerak, Villa Grove; H J Klassen, Aberdeen ID; J K Knauss, Indianapolis; K A Knauss, Indianapolis; D H MacFarlane, New York; D H McLaren, Dundee; J A Oberg, Villa Grove; K A Oberg, Villa Grove; K R Oliver, Denton; D M Welch, Denton